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  • lazycis
    02-14 05:17 PM
    Another prove of government misconduct is violation of regulations

    In addition to the aspirational 180-day deadline in 8 U.S.C. � 1571(b), the 8 C.F.R. � 103.2(b)(18) sets forth a detailed timetable for “withholding adjudication of a visa petition or other application if . . . an investigation has been undertaken involving a matter relating to eligibility or the exercise of discretion . . . .”

    I doubt these regulations were followed in thousands of delayed I-485s.

    http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=223449&postcount=3

    We have also over a hundred WOM rulings were court acknowledged that the USCIS "unreasonably delayed" adjudication of applications. Moreover, the USCIS intentionally pushed people to go to court

    http://bibdaily.com/pdfs/Mocanu%201-14-08.pdf

    "For reasons stated at the hearing and in this Memorandum, I have reached a tentative conclusion that Defendant USCIS, overwhelmed by these applications, has adopted a strategy of favoring delay by litigation, instead of developing an orderly and transparent administrative resolution. Although this strategy is often evident in private party damages litigation, it is improper in these cases."





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  • STAmisha
    01-23 06:01 PM
    Mandalla ************

    Rot in hell. Rot in prison. Because of bastards like you, all of the immigrant community is suffering. Enjoy your prison





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  • eb3_nepa
    10-23 02:08 PM
    Thanks eb3India.

    How does the current company obtain a pre-approved labor? Does it buy the pre-app labour? Or is it SOLELY because someone in the company left (whose labor was approved)?

    I was reading a lot about the controversy about why it should be stopped etc so i was wondering if someone had any documentation on why it was started in the first place and how it works

    Thanks





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  • santb1975
    02-13 04:16 PM
    This is my first post which was not positive. I am backing up :). I am proud to be part of IV. I beleive in this cause.

    Buck up :) We all go through it. I never take it personally. I would definitely be happy if more and more members come forward and help, instead of "missing in action" when needed most.

    We would be really happy if new members come up and take initiatives (i am now keeping my messages positive :) ) , more active members, more strength.

    participation is contigeous, all we need is some self motivators and self starters to kindle the fire.



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  • we_r_d_world
    07-28 02:32 PM
    #1 Landed in Texas in late 90's at a friends place. Friend took me to get SS# next day, dropped me at SS office during his lunch time and came in the evening at SS office to pick me up. While waiting outside, in a span of 20 minutes, had two people (one desi and another a colored person) approach me trying to befriend me...obviously I fall for it, second day and I meet such a nice person , offering me help if I needed. etc. Asked me for my cell or home #, I did not have any (was only going to stay at friends for few days and then going to Phoenix), so, i managed to get their business cards and I promised to call them.
    In the evening, friend picked me up, told him what happened, he laughed and said "they already got you....unbelievable..hit in just one day of landing... I asked him to explain what was going on, he said he explained me everything. He mentioned that his brother-in-law will be at his home in the evening for dinner (an IBO), and asked me to tell him that I was not interested as I wanted to focus on career first. We go inside, he introduced to his BIL, BIL immediately asked me when I came and what I do, and that he has an excellent business offer for me, which he would discuss with me after dinner. My friend blinked at me, I told him that I had a business proposal for him as well. He was surprised and asked me what it was. I told him that when I was in India, I was a IBO and I wanted him to be an IBO, after listening to what I had to say.

    He and my friend were astonished, my friend and his wife were laughing. BIL said he was going to talk about the same thing to me, I said, I am tired and if he already is a IBO, I will not talk about it at all, as I would rather sleep (jet lag). Got rid of him easily...


    Incident #2: After moving to Phoenix in 8 days, landed at my Desi consultant's, got a 2 Bedroom townhome shared by total of4 people. One of them was active in AMWAY...asked me if I wanted to go to a business meeting followed by Tea/snacks. I told him I could come only if he stops by grocery store first as I wanted to buy stuff. I did not have car so needed his help for groceries etc. I went with him and few of other FOBs that he had managed to "capture" (New Bakras for him). Went to his friends house who was a new IBO and hosting tea party/(Bakra kato seminar) first time, so he had lot of food/snacks etc. I enjoyed the snack, slept in the mkt. speech. ate good food. Told him that I was already an IBO when the form signing ceremony started, friend was mad why I did not tell him, I told him that I should be mad at him for wasting my time and not telling me where and what this meeting was about. Had a fun at his expense :-)
    in couple of weeks moved to Mid North East, where I did not face any AMWAY/QUI guy/s.





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  • humdesi
    11-09 11:07 AM
    Found an interesting thread on this topic in immigrationportal. The post below is by vm_gc who got his GC recently:

    Hi qwerty1111,

    I completely understand where your comment is coming from and respect your comments. But to be fair, i think it's just not appropriate making such comment without completely knowing my situvation.

    I came to this country in 2000 and start working for my current employer, one of the reputed big technology company, in 2000. As the dot com bust started in late 2000, my company stopped applying green cards for employees as per law (since they were not in a position to show not availability of people with my skills and at the same time they started laying off people). But i still chose to stay with my current employer due to the kind of work we do and learning opportunities in my job. Finally my employer applied my GC in 2005 that to non-RIR category (not even RIR category as they still had some issues in applying RIR) as my 6year term was coming near. And this labor is still rotting in the backlog center and i don't know when it will be cleared (and i have already completed my 6year h1b term).

    And in sept 2005, my employer gave me a sub labor, as the labor matched my skills and based on my superior performance (since there were many people similiar to my situvation in my company). This sub labor, i neither bought with money nor with some recommendations. It's completely earned by working hard.

    And the same time, while i was waiting for my labor to be applied, many of friends and people i know of, who came to this country at much later time, went to work for small consultancy companies, applied GC and got GC long time back. How ?. because the small companies don't even follow the laws, can apply GCs in RIR (by showing some junk proofs) and they will open a satelite offices in places like maine, wisconsin (just for their employees GCs) and get the labor approved at a faster rate. While we working at big companies wait for labor to be applied by following strict laws.

    You tell me what is fair in this country, when it comes to immigration process.

    Your situvation could be much worse than me, but that's mainly due to the broken immigration process in country.

    I am not taking any offense on your comments. I wish you good luck and i hope your GC will come through soon.
    __________________
    Sub Labor PD: 8/21/2002, EB2, India
    I-140 : RD 09/22/2005, AD 03/01/2006
    I-485: RD 09/22/2005, AD 11/07/2006
    05/31/2006 : lawyer sent a letter with supporting documents to USCIS for correcting PD on I-140 approval notice. I-140 approval PD shows as 09/22/2005.
    09/14/06: received updated I-140 approval notice with correct PD.
    Finger Prints/Name check - cleared (according to USCIS letter)



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  • deepakjain
    08-15 10:12 AM
    I am sure the immigration officers might have got news about people from India make illigal entry into US when they come as part of some drama, dance, shows.

    Many "extras", dancers, musicians have vanished after landing in US.....check any local desi Indian resturant, kirana stores those desi working there are all illigal immigrants....it is not only mexicans but many from northern India states are here as illigal immigrants ....

    the easiest way to make entry into US, Canada is landing here as part of a show troop....few famous Indian personality have been detained and proved that they were tainted in human traffacking....Ministers, Movie Stars, SInger, Musical show organizers ....

    Many Desis have vanished in UK, Germany, Holland, US, Canada.... {I am not saying SRK is involved in Human Traffacking ...but Indian are and show is the most common option}





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  • mirage
    03-30 05:20 PM
    Problem is we Indians see Indira Gandhi Airport, Jawaharlal Mission, Rajiv Gandhi Electricity Yojna, Indira Gandhi University, Jawahar Lal Uniiversity, Rajiv Gandhi Jal Sansthan, Rajiv Gandhi This Indira Gandhi that, so we get a feeling as if we are breathing just because of these 3 individuals. They are too good at advertising their Netas, that you just forget if anybody else ever existed... Govt is never one man effort/show.It is a team effort. Just like software projects are.For sure it will not be one man show with BJP.We have NDA's rule for example.While we are that NDA had allies in it too.



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  • pointlesswait
    09-14 04:45 PM
    This a very optimistic prediction....

    i think .. most with PD of jan 2005 and earlier will get their GC ..thus in OCT VB the dates will pull back a bit..maybe mid 2004...so first qtr will be bad news for anyone with a PD after jan 2005,...but the 2nd and 3rd qtr.. the dates will be definitely be in mid 2006.

    my 1/4 cent





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    05-02 05:28 PM
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  • Googler
    02-15 10:28 PM
    My friend, I'm not trying to fight you. All I am saying that you cannot file a class action against USCIS because they have not done anything wrong. They are just following the law.

    If you really want to have this change, it is the US congress that you can deal with.

    As I've said, I work for a law firm.

    Why don't ask your immigration lawyer first regarding the "class action" you are talking about.

    (1) There was no shortage of laypeople and even attorneys who asserted that "USCIS isn't doing anything wrong they are just following the law" when it came to FBI name checks. Fortunately for all of us sharper legal brains and sharper judges prevailed, and brought us to this happy day.

    (2) On Class Actions: Villamonte, have you read the Mocanu decision (http://www.bibdaily.com/pdfs/Mocanu%202-8-08%20LEXIS.pdf)? If not I encourage you to do so -- that was just individual cases being consolidated, but the situation is not very different -- you should pay particular attention to the part where Judge Baylson recommends a multi-district class action litigation to deal with all the other name check cases (see p. 16, para numbered 6).

    The parallels between the those cases and the one being proposed are very strong.

    Judge Baylson is not the only judge who has recommended a class action approach to these issues. IV members should also be aware that all we need are a few named plaintiffs, it isn't as though every IV member or even everyone wanting to sue needs to be a named plaintiff. All the judge needs to recognize is that there is a large group of applicants with same or similar grounds for suing USCIS/Emilio Gonzalez. Edit to add: IV the organization doesn't even need to be the primary plaintiff, since that will necessarily cutoff any parallel discussion with the agencies. The IV forums are just a place to organize this.

    (3) Preliminary Ideas on the Grounds for Suing (courtesy lazycis):
    The grounds for suing USCIS is the same as in Gonzalez v Howerton -- (a) interpreting the law incorrectly (b) not following the statutory requirement that they use up all the greencards available in a given year and therefore being guilty of affirmative misconduct. At the very least, a judge is within his rights to make them make amends -- by recapturing 2003-2004 EB greencards, since they wasted them as a result of their affirmative misconduct -- they waited for name checks or simply not processing applications - no one can say there wasn't an application backlog in 2003-2004.

    (4) First Steps
    What we need here is to get this matter before a good legal strategist who is familiar with (a) the two sources of affirmative misconduct (FBI name checks and cessation of processing in 2003-2004) (b) precedents and caselaw (note that most immigration law firms are good with filing paperwork, but not necessarily complex litigation, so forget about the usual suspects.) The perfect legal argument will not sprout up immediately. In the same way that the legal arguments in the name check cases were honed over time (lazycis can confirm this), this too will need some serious research and thinking.

    Those of you who want everything about this case sorted out, signed, sealed, guaranteed and delivered this week will need a reality check. :)

    As will those of you who think that the way to approach this is to discuss these issues without familiarizing yourself with facts and legal precedents in some detail (so arguments about slavery etc are not the ones that will win the day in court, it is arguments that can show that USCIS was not interpreting the law correctly and in doing so caused harm and that the harm can be remedied through recapture.) -- if you want to see how a case like this will work read Mocanu and Galvez. This case will not be a dramatic movie-style civil rights case about slavery, it will involve the most tedious sort of nitty gritty discussion of admin misconduct.

    OTOH, for most of us, all we've got is time -- I do not foresee my Jan 2003 EB-2 India PD becoming current any time soon. I'm prepared for a long legal battle. I'd rather do something constructive** that will likely change the process than sit and wait and mope.


    **: Yes, I've sent off my letters too. I think of these two things as complementary projects.





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  • BharatPremi
    09-24 02:18 AM
    Based on following link:

    http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%20Structure/2nd%20Level%20%28Left%20Nav%20Parents%29/Green%20Card%20-%202nd%20Level/Pending%20Form%20I-485%20Reports.pdf

    28.6%/5 = 5.72% for EB3-India + Spillover from EB2 and EB1, not more than 10,000 of which to "Other Workers".
    28.6%/5 = 5.72% for EB2-India + spillover from EB1
    28.6%/5 = 5.72% for EB1-India + spillover from EB4 and EB5


    Each category is 28.6% WW Quota.

    WW Quota consists of 5 country specific sub-quotas 1)India 2)China 3) Mexico 4) Philipines 5)ROW.

    Based on page 1, I do math as under for Philippines categories.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Quota for EB4 -->7% x 140000/5=1960, Pending: 70 Quota to be spilled over to EB1= 1890
    2) Quota for EB5 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 0 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1960
    3) Quota for EB1 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + EB4 spillover 1890 + EB5 spillover 1960 = 11858 - pending 74 = Total
    11784 will go to EB2
    4) Quota for EB2 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 11784 =19792, Pending: 510, So total 19282 VISA numbers will be spilled
    over to EB3.
    5) Quota for EB3 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 19282 spill over =27290 - 11563 Pending = 15727 VISA extra.
    6) “Other Workers” – Pending: 264 TOTAL UNUSED VISAS = 15727-264 = 15463 UNUSED VISAS will go to the quota
    of other countries.


    Based on page 3, I do math as under for ROW categories.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Quota for EB4 -->7% x 140000/5=1960, Pending: 1378 Quota to be spilled over to EB1= 582
    2) Quota for EB5 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 40 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1920
    3) Quota for EB1 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + EB4 spillover 582 + EB5 spillover 1920 = 10510 - pending 2477 = Total
    8033 will go to EB2
    4) Quota for EB2 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 8033 =16031, Pending: 7150, So total 8881 VISA numbers will be spilled
    over to EB3.
    5) Quota for EB3 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 8881 spill over =16889. Pending: 62840 -16889 = 45951 applications will
    still be pending and pushed to year 2011.

    Based on page 4, I do math as under for China categories.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Quota For EB4 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 384 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1576
    2) Quota For EB5 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 13 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1947
    3) Quota for EB1 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + EB4 spillover 1576 + EB5 spillover 1947 = 11531 - pending 607 =
    Total 10924 will go to EB2
    4) Quota for EB2 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 10924 =18932, Pending: 19333, So total 401 applications will be pushed to
    year 2011 with pending approval.
    5) Quota for EB3 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + no spillover = 8008 – 6343 Pending = 1665 visas Extra.
    6) “Other Workers” – Pending: 30 TOTAL UNUSED VISAS = 1665-30 = 1635 UNUSED VISAS will go to the quota
    of other countries.

    Based on page 5, I do math as under for India categories.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Quota for EB4 -->7% x 140000/5=1960, Pending: 123 Quota to be spilled over to EB1= 1960-123 = 1837
    2) Quota for EB5 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 13 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1960-13 = 1947
    3) Quota for EB1 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + EB4 spillover 1837 + EB5 spillover 1947 = 11792 - pending 418 = Total
    11374 will go to EB2
    4) Quota for EB2 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 11374 =19382, Pending: 47728, So total 28346 applications will still be
    pending for year 2011.
    5) Quota for EB3 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008, no spill over. Pending: 62607 -8008 = 54599 applications will still be pending
    and pushed to year 2011.

    Based on page 6, I do math as under for Mexico categories.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Quota For EB4 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 62 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1960-62=1898
    2) Quota For EB5 --> 7% x 140000 / 5 = 1960, Pending: 0 Quota to be spilled over to EB1 = 1960
    3) Quota for EB1 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + EB4 spillover 1898 + EB5 spillover 1960 = 11866 - pending 174 =
    Total 11692 will go to EB2
    4) Quota for EB2 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 11692 =19700, Pending: 211, So total 19489 applications will spill over to
    EB3 category.
    5) Quota for EB3 --> 5.72% x 140000 = 8008 + 19489 spillover = 27497 – 7878 Pending = 19619 visas Extra.
    6) “Other Workers” – Pending: 8415 TOTAL UNUSED VISAS = 19619-8415 = 11204 UNUSED VISAS will go to the quota
    of other countries.


    TOTAL UNUSED VISAS = 15463 + 1635 + 11204 = 28302.

    Assuming these unused visas from Philippines, China and Mexico will be used for India, ROW equally India will benefit additional 14151 VISAS this year. Assuming all of these go to EB2 India Pushed down figure for EB2-India for the year 2011 will be 28346 – 14151 = 14195 pending EB2-I applications ready to go to year 2011.



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  • chanduv23
    08-17 01:17 PM
    I cannot believe there are 9 pages (and counting) worth of sentiments, because some lame talentless guy was subject to security checks at an International Airport. I'm someone who was born India, but never lived there - however I'd think there are incredibly talented Indians here in America and worldwide compared to someone who's used to blatant exploitation / sell out of Indian culture. The guy is a disgrace. And some of you, please stop rolling over to play the 'victim' in any given post.

    You do not need to 'stand-up' for Shahruk Khan. Stand up for yourself, for every - everyday Indian Joe & Jane who've travelled from their hometowns to make a living and for a future. Stand up for the hero in you - not clownish make believe bollywood heroes.

    Why do you think he is talentless? Just because he is not an ivy league or not a doctor? He is extremely talented. Belive me - getting into bollywood and becoming so big without any support is not easy. Most people in Bollywood are either offsprings of stars and they have strong support. SRK grew popular all over the world, not through any support but by himself. So he is definitely a star.
    Do not disqualify such people. they have amazing capabilities, people listen to what they say. Look at all the good roles he has done in movies like Swades - though the credit goes to the director he is a "face" which people accept.
    If we were a smart thinking group, we will utilize such publicity to better our cause. Instead we kept bashing everything around is claiming we "deserve" good things but we do not get it so we live with it and whats so special about him.





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  • valuablehurdle
    07-11 02:08 PM
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  • boreal
    07-21 05:23 PM
    People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.

    Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600

    ..

    Thanks for explaining how this works!! I only avoided them and never heard their pitches, but looks like they go through an awful lot. No wonder why they keep at it even if everyone avoids them like plague. Now I am feeling sorry for all the cold shoulders that i gave them so far. Anyway, those ppl have reduced in the bay area somewhat..I am here since more than ten years now and I have seen that the folks that keep pestering me out in the malls, Kohls, Target etc are dwindling. Maybe they are coming to their senses and learning that there are decent ways to earn money.

    Having said all these, someone was suggesting that we maintain a central database and malign them further. Thats pure evil man! Why go to these extremes? Just ignore them and they will go their way - yeah they are a nuisance, but nothing more, right? They are still humans!





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  • go_guy123
    01-28 04:11 PM
    :mad: They should stop the so called substitution.

    USCIS was trying to abolish this substitution. The lawyer lobby opposed it.
    There are too many well funded vested interest groups, so we are getting screwed. I have no hope/expections of GC relief...only more H1B quota making things worse.



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  • pa_arora
    07-26 04:28 PM
    meekdesi, my friend... I also grew up in Delhi and in the same places what u listed...dont ask for what ur country did for u ...tell me what u did for ur country?? I am pretty sure u don't have an answer and if u do ur making false assertions.

    u know the problem with u ...u just think who will cleanup the house, the other person living can clean it. But that not the way it works...so show what u did before u demand.





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  • Michael chertoff
    07-03 02:48 PM
    I applied for EAD paying old fees in Jul 2007, and I renewed with new fees this year in Jun 2008, would like know if I need to pay renewal fees again when I renew my EAD in Jun 2009.

    Brother for this type of questions it is better if you can read the Instructions.

    Thanks
    MC





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  • vadicherla
    09-04 01:31 PM
    Go to your postings in this thread and read what you wrote in "Brain Damage". You wanted to distribute sweets??? How do you feel when YS Jagan grabs what you have in your village? You were supporting them so much, why not advice them to return 10,000 acres of land that he grabbed for Brahmani Steels? Jesus Christ killed YSR, otherwise, they would have grabbed all your village. Be happy, Jesus took him away.

    You dont even talk about my village even in your dreams.. Our village is much happier than before 5 years.. Its all becuase of YSR did for our village.





    logiclife
    01-01 01:08 AM
    Here is the contact info of this author.

    http://www.flight-capital.com/contact.html

    His email is dh@flight-capital.com. The phone numbers are for his sales office of his book. I came to know about this guy from cable news show, I guess it was MSNBC, cant be sure.

    I have already written a letter to this guy asking for help/suggestions. I will send a copy of that email to you too.

    This man is legit. I found something more on this guy:

    This is from : http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=14488&sector=QAndA&subsector=PolicyMakersAndPundits#

    In Flight Capital, Mr. Heenan says that 1,000 people a day leave the U.S. to return to their home countries. While few countries monitor the quantity and quality of talent that has exited and returned, he says these are the talented people who help drive the pace of innovation in tech centers like California�s Silicon Valley. �In the global war for top talent, our competitors aren�t taking prisoners,� he writes.In his travels and research, Mr. Heenan interviewed repatriates in eight countries, including Ireland, Iceland, India, Singapore, China, Taiwan, Israel, and Mexico. Eight of the 11 Americans who shared Nobel prizes in physics and chemistry in the past three years were born elsewhere, and nearly 40 percent of Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduate students are from abroad, notes Mr. Heenan, who has taught at the University of Pennsylvania�s Wharton School and Columbia University.





    bayarea07
    07-28 03:07 PM
    Hilarious Post and good way to tackle these guys, You Just made my day

    #1 Landed in Texas in late 90's at a friends place. Friend took me to get SS# next day, dropped me at SS office during his lunch time and came in the evening at SS office to pick me up. While waiting outside, in a span of 20 minutes, had two people (one desi and another a colored person) approach me trying to befriend me...obviously I fall for it, second day and I meet such a nice person , offering me help if I needed. etc. Asked me for my cell or home #, I did not have any (was only going to stay at friends for few days and then going to Phoenix), so, i managed to get their business cards and I promised to call them.
    In the evening, friend picked me up, told him what happened, he laughed and said "they already got you....unbelievable..hit in just one day of landing... I asked him to explain what was going on, he said he explained me everything. He mentioned that his brother-in-law will be at his home in the evening for dinner (an IBO), and asked me to tell him that I was not interested as I wanted to focus on career first. We go inside, he introduced to his BIL, BIL immediately asked me when I came and what I do, and that he has an excellent business offer for me, which he would discuss with me after dinner. My friend blinked at me, I told him that I had a business proposal for him as well. He was surprised and asked me what it was. I told him that when I was in India, I was a IBO and I wanted him to be an IBO, after listening to what I had to say.

    He and my friend were astonished, my friend and his wife were laughing. BIL said he was going to talk about the same thing to me, I said, I am tired and if he already is a IBO, I will not talk about it at all, as I would rather sleep (jet lag). Got rid of him easily...


    Incident #2: After moving to Phoenix in 8 days, landed at my Desi consultant's, got a 2 Bedroom townhome shared by total of4 people. One of them was active in AMWAY...asked me if I wanted to go to a business meeting followed by Tea/snacks. I told him I could come only if he stops by grocery store first as I wanted to buy stuff. I did not have car so needed his help for groceries etc. I went with him and few of other FOBs that he had managed to "capture" (New Bakras for him). Went to his friends house who was a new IBO and hosting tea party/(Bakra kato seminar) first time, so he had lot of food/snacks etc. I enjoyed the snack, slept in the mkt. speech. ate good food. Told him that I was already an IBO when the form signing ceremony started, friend was mad why I did not tell him, I told him that I should be mad at him for wasting my time and not telling me where and what this meeting was about. Had a fun at his expense :-)
    in couple of weeks moved to Mid North East, where I did not face any AMWAY/QUI guy/s.